Posts by Cold Steel

11

So god is Satan and Satan is god?

by Vachi 8 He Is in

it seems to me that what we've come to know about god doesn't exactly fit with someone who is loving.

first of all he's jealous but then why the surprise in the cain and abel story?

abel was a shepard of sheep and cain was a farmer.

Cold Steel

To think that God didn't know what would happen in the Garden is to acknowledge that He is not omniscient. In fact, the entire Garden story has all the elements of a setup. In fact, God intended for Adam and Eve to fall; otherwise, as you note, He would not have placed two innocents in a setting with the Adversary. The question is why? Why would God do it? What possibly could be His motive for having Adam and Eve fall?

For one thing, they could not fully gain a knowledge of good or evil without partaking of the fruit. This knowledge, as well as mortality, was essential to our growth. Only through the process of gaining mortality, and the knowledge of good and evil, could we experience pain, sorrow and hardships -- things that were vital to our becoming like Him. At the same time, we needed a Redeemer to pull the plug and ensure that we had a way back. In short, it was part of the Divine Plan. Read Timothy Ware's The Orthodox Way, for a better understanding of how this all works together to bring us to salvation.

The Jehovah's Witnesses see the sin in the Garden as a horrible mistake, and after Jehovah-God sent Michael the Archangel to die on the cross, mankind will be restored to a garden setting, where people will just sit around playing musical instruments, gathering fruit and tending to the garden and to animals. Strange that their publications don't show anyone naked, but if they're correct (and I don't believe they are), why would anyone need clothing? We'll be pure-minded and go back to what Jehovah-God had in mind for us. Just sitting around all day doing nothing constructive at all -- divine pets.

I believe, as Timothy Ware argues, that the divine plan was for God to become as we are so that we could become as He is. John said it doth not yet appear what we shall be, but that when we finally see God, we shall be like Him, for we shall see him as He is. And as Jesus was resurrected physically, with a spiritual body (animated by spirit, not blood). In short, there will be no heavenly class and earthly class people, for all will have physical resurrections, and all (including Adam and Eve) will find that they, through the Atonement, have become far superior to what they could have possibly achieved, or become, in the Garden. It's just another example of the JWs having a narrow minded theology.

23

Are JW's Dangerous? Youtube Mirror of WTComments video

by OnTheWayOut in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1ggji29rj0.

Cold Steel

I'm not a Jehovah's Witness, but (except for the blood transfusion issue), I don't see much to throw it into the "cult" category, which is where this video seems to be heading.

Early Christians were denounced for 1) its secrecy; 2) its refusal to mix with others with a differing belief system; and 3) its insistence that it had a monopoly on the truth. JWs, while discouraged from associating with others with different belief systems, are not forced to, particulary from family members. Cults, on the other hand, force disassociation. They also engage in sleep deprivation and repitition that the JWs don't engage in. And though narrow minded and dogmatic, JWs are not all that different than many other sects that tend to be exclusive.

There are some cults where deprogramming would be justifiable. If you attempted it with JWs, though, you'd be risking legal action, big time.

15

Who Heads God's Organization Today?

by wannabe in

who heads god's organization today?.

i've been thinking about this idea about a visible organization.

not the governing body of jehovah's witnesses at all, they, along with the entire realm of religious christendom are a non-entity.

Cold Steel

You can find references to it with some of the references in Revelation, where the prophet seems to be describing modern means of warfare. "And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men," he says. "... And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle." It doesn't take much imagination to see modern helicopters in this verse. Horses kick up dust when they travel. Locusts don't. But the prophet says they had the "shapes" of locusts. And helicopters also are camoflaged and sound like locusts. And "there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth." (see Revelation 9) Unlike real locusts, however, the locusts John saw "should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree."

Isaiah speaks of the gathering of the Jews thus: "And he will lift up an ensign to the nations from far, and will hiss unto them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly: None shall be weary nor stumble among them; none shall slumber nor sleep; neither shall the girdle of their loins be loosed, nor the latchet of their shoes be broken: Whose arrows are sharp, and all their bows bent, their horses' hoofs shall be counted like flint, and their wheels like a whirlwind: Their roaring shall be like a lion, they shall roar like young lions: yea, they shall roar, and lay hold of the prey, and shall carry it away safe, and none shall deliver it." (Isa. 5)

Again, you get the ensign and the gathering. Judah returns to its lands with great speed, "swiftly." To me, modern modes of travel are the only means of fulfillment. When one boards a jet airliner, people travel quickly without weariness nor stumbling. Many can travel between nations without so much as a nap or removing their shoes. The imagery of sharp arrows and bent bows indicates the quickness of travel, and "horses' hoofs shall be counted as flint" and "their wheels like a whirlwind" also to me indicates modern travel. The roaring of jet engines can be like the roar of lions, and the travel will be as safe as the prey delivered by lions. Such travel is quick and safe, and the engines of jets and of railroads are loud and sure. Joel also quoted the Lord in saying, "And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke." (Joel 2:30) and Paul said men would be "ever learning, but unable to come to a knowledge of the truth." (2 Tim. 3:7)

Again, one can see modern modes of warfare and learning. Bombs rained down on the cities of London and Dresden, with horrible loss of human life and endless streams of smoke over smoldering cities. Certainly one can find alternatives to all of these, but one may also see the days in which we live.

15

Who Heads God's Organization Today?

by wannabe in

who heads god's organization today?.

i've been thinking about this idea about a visible organization.

not the governing body of jehovah's witnesses at all, they, along with the entire realm of religious christendom are a non-entity.

Cold Steel

I think you're being too hard on religion. As one who has studied prophesy in the scriptures, I've found it to be extraordinarily accurate. Some scholars assume when they see prophecies that have been fulfilled, that they must have been written after the fulfillment. This has not been substantiated, however. As in the case of the restoration of Judah to the lands of their inheritance, Isaiah writes: "And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me." (Isa. 49:23) This is exactly how Israel was formed and nurtured. Isaiah also prophecied: "And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isa. 11:11-12) Again, a literal fulfillment.

Religion has its place, but it's been hijacked by manmade sectarians for the most part.

15

Who Heads God's Organization Today?

by wannabe in

who heads god's organization today?.

i've been thinking about this idea about a visible organization.

not the governing body of jehovah's witnesses at all, they, along with the entire realm of religious christendom are a non-entity.

Cold Steel

Wannabe, you tend to ask questions and then go into so much detail that most people won't read them. How's about you posing the question, answering it in the first paragraph and then go in for the scriptual references?

You obviously don't believe the Governing Body can lead us, but Jesus isn't around.

Is God's church on the Earth? If so, can we expect it to have apostles like the ancient church? The Catholic church claims to have the keys of authority, but they have so far departed from it that they've become awash in saints, transubstantiation, opulence, mysticism and so forth.

After Armegeddon, Zechariah writes: "And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land."

In Jerusalem, the Catholic and Orthodox churches have many saints (which many reformists consider idols, since they are images that are prayed to). These will be cut off and they shall "no more be remembered." Then there are the prophets of Islam that must be dealt with. And it will be revealed to those who survive that these prophets were led by an "unclean spirit" and these prophets, too, will pass out of the land. There will be no more Muhammed, no more Madhi, and Islam will finally die. But there will be bitterness in the land, and there will be many who will refuse to acknowledge God's relationship to His People, the Jews. And even the Jews will be lamenting because they'll realize that Jesus is the Messiah.

So if not the Catholics, then who? Do the JWs win by default? Are they the only ones who teach biblical truth? The Cambellites also believe the same thing. The churches of Christ don't claim to have a leadership, for all are followers.

Bottom line: If the church of Jesus Christ is on the Earth, where is it? What happened to the ancient church? I don't see how God would establish a church and the Governing Body be completely unaware. They're assuming much! I've heard of people who form groups, and they go out looking for the church of Jesus Christ. They attend different services, talk to the preachers and just see what's out there. Some become Evangelicals, some Mormons, some Seventh Day Adventists, some Catholics, some Orthodox and yes, some become Jehovah's Witnesses.

67

Christians, Is it okay for engaged couples to have sex before marriage?

by asilentone in

.

Cold Steel

No. In fact, it's one of the most offensive sins against God.

My sister loves watching JUDGE JUDY on television (she comes on just before Glenn Beck). I'm constantly amazed at how many women sue men they've lived with and who have fathered their children. Some women have three or four children and most are on the public dole! This is something that is extremely serious. The Lord established the family and it's a holy institution. No matter how careful some people are, some become pregnant and I think abortion is one of the greatest sins of the age. (Most of the women I've talked to who have been for abortion rights have never bothered to actually see how one is performed.)

Premarital sex is the antithesis of everything the Lord wants and has established. Women accidentally have one child after another and then they don't raise them properly. Many end up in gangs and murdering other people. So of course it's a sin, and a grievous one at that. And I don't want to support other peoples' kids.

Just look at our president. Obama's father had never gotten a divorce from his previous wives, so his "marriage" to Barry's mom was not entirely legal. Both parents were communists, the kid was nurtured and taught by communists. Now he surrounds himself with communists and if anyone reads about his early life, he was (and in my opinion) still is a basket case! Now he's taking us down the road that that bankrupted the Europeans and has never worked. He was bound to have been screwed up! Barrack Obama Sr. was simply a "baby maker." He went from one woman to another, then abandoned them.

Now look what we've got!

19

How Long Has The Christ Been Invisibly Present?

by wannabe in

how long has the christ been invisibly present?.

i don't know as i have covered this one before or not, but can't we say that jesus has been invisibly present ever since his ascension in the first century?

didn't he indicate that he was in this following scripture?.

Cold Steel

Have you explored if the two witnesses may not even be human? Or if their prophesying is over a much longer span of time?

No, I take a pretty literal reading of this one. In apocalypic literature, you can get into some crazy stuff, and it's not all literal and it's many times presentational. In this case, the two prophets are the two candlesticks mentioned by Zechariah. The two prophets also have powers that traditionally were given to Elijah and Moses. I don't think these are the two prophets, though there is a tradition that Moses was assumed into heaven as was Elijah.

Why take it literally, though? Note the language (Rev. 11):

And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

The city has to be Jerusalem and cannot "spiritually" represent anything else since it "spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt." Specific reference is made to their dead bodies, the fact that they wouldn't be put into graves, that the "spirit of life" entered into them and that they "stood upon their feet." Also, their enemies would see them and that they would ascend into heaven in a cloud. The earthquake here is undoubtedly the same one mentioned in Zechariah -- the one which splits the Mount of Olives in twain. When Jehovah comes, all the saints would come with him, and the Jews would see the wounds in his hands and say, "What are these wounds in thy hands?"

In short, mixing literal elements and metaphor just isn't done, even in apocalyptic literature. In any given section, it's either all one or all the other. Mixing them would confuse everyone. There are places where metaphor is used, but I see it used with other obvious metaphors like the woman and the wilderness, the beasts and such. In this case, the Beast mentioned already has been identified as presentational. He's a real person. Jerusalem is a real city, and the time periods are actual days and years. For these witnesses to be metaphors, it would require massive mixing of real and presentational. Just my view.

1

Who Chooses the Heavenly Calling?

by wannabe in

who chooses the heavenly calling?.

there is no religious leader, or followers of such, of whatever faith or denomination, can choose for themselves the high honor of reigning with the christ for the thousand year period as kings and priests.

that choosing and calling is done by jehovah god, alone as is seen from the choosing of the twelve apostles.

Cold Steel

There is no heavenly high calling. All are resurrected with physical bodies like Christ's. No one is resurrected a spirit.

See John 3.

The JW translation of Hebrews is wrong. The meaning is, no one takes this honor unto one's self, save he who is called as was Aaron. This means in the same manner as Aaron. How was Aaron called, by the way? Through Moses, who held a superior calling.

The 144,000 are high priests. In Hebrew theology, only one high priest (Levitical) was called at any given time. The other "high priest" was after the order of Melchizedek. Some believe only Christ had this calling, but then how about Melchizedek? One must be ordained to this priesthood and cannot take this honor unto one's self. This puts the Jehovah's Witnesses into a quandry, big time. The numeric term also means "many," and not a specific number. One must be familiar with apocalyptic literature to understand this, however.

5

WHERE did the prophets come from? Don't think they were jews......

by EndofMysteries in

samuel, elijah, elisha........were they all jews?

i think maybe daniel was, maybe ezekiel, but anyway seemed from reading some aren't.

wondering if the answers known among any here or if gotta look it up myself.

Cold Steel

Malachi was Italian. Sicilian, in fact.

He was the one that said, "Pay tithing...or else...."

His father was one of the Malachi brothers, out of New Jersey, I think.

38

Jehovah Witness sues Employer

by wasblind in

http://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/8057201/.

Cold Steel

It's a good thing JWs don't have any restrictions on suing people.

Were the three wise men JWs? If they were, they couldn't have very well delivered their gifts, now could they? But then, that would have ruined things for millions of other Christians.